| Author | Message | ||
     JESUS ALVIDRES Username: jalvidres Registered: N/A |
What is the best way to make an exact copy of a CF card? This is a Toshiba 512 MB CF card that has a embeeded version of windows and it is used to start up a system. The system started to give the "blue screen" and either I try to fix this card to get rid of the blue screen or I make a clone or image to just replace it. I already did a clone with Winhex and it starts up up to windows but does not strat the spplication program like it is supposed to and I'm suspecting that the clonning I did was not reliable or there are things that did not copy or something. Any ideas of how not to go wrong doing a exact copy of this CF card? | ||
| Don Camillo Username: willybilly Registered: N/A |
There are several tools which make exact copies. Winhex is one of it. Another is the dd command which you can find in internet - you should know the correct command options as it works in console mode. Of course you should make a clone of the physical medium - not of the drive letter as then the bootsector is missing. If you make a clone of the CD card which does no longer boot up, the clone will not boot up too. Of course the target card has to be as large (or larger) than the original. Did you make a "chkdsk" at original / clone? Virus checker? | ||
| JESUS ALVIDRES Username: jalvidres Registered: N/A |
I made a clone of a second CF card we have on a different system. Right now we have to start up the first system and then get the CF card out and start up the second one with the same healthy card. If for any reason the system is stoped we have to go get the card from the other system and restart the second one and so on (it sucks). So, did I do something wrong when I clone the healthy CF card because is not starting the app program like the healty one? How should I go about making a clone of "the physical medium" and not of the drive letter? Thanks for reply by the way!! | ||
| Stefan Fleischmann Username: admin Registered: 1-2001 |
> How should I go about making a clone of "the physical > medium" and not of the drive letter? You select the physical medium and not the drive letter when you specify source and destination for cloning. | ||
| JESUS ALVIDRES Username: jalvidres Registered: N/A |
I was finally able to make a clone of my CF card choosing the physical media instead of the drive letter and still does not work. Are there any special parameters I should have set when clonning? At what e-mail address can I send screen captures of the screens I use to do the clonning to be help if I'm doing something wrong? | ||
| Stefan Fleischmann Username: admin Registered: 1-2001 |
No, there are no special parameters. When cloning a medium, WinHex copies all the bits and bytes in all the sectors, not less, no more. You get a report about which sectors were copied. If all the sectors were copied, there is nothing else WinHex can do for you. You don't need to send us screenshots. If the cloned card does not work as the original card, then that must be for other reasons than the data in the accessible sectors. | ||
| Don Camillo Username: willybilly Registered: N/A |
Hi, this sounds as if the CF card would have a bug. Did you already test a new CF card? And: Did you run a chkdsk on the old CF card as I already recommended you? The cards do not like it if you (Windows) write(s) very often on them. So it maybe that some parts of it are no longer good. | ||
| JESUS ALVIDRES Username: jalvidres Registered: N/A |
How can make sure that I'm clonning all the bits and bytes in all the sectors? What exactly should I check on the source card that has to be identical on the destiny card at the end? 1.- On winhex I click on the "tools" menu and click on the submenu "disk tools" and then "clone disk". 2.-On the dialog box that appears next ("Clone Disk" (copy sectors), I select the physical medium of the source and I do the same for the destination. 3.- On this same dialog box: what boxes should be checked? 4.-I go "OK" and an error tells me "invalid input". 5.- On "Start sector" (destination) I write down a number "zero" and click ok again. Is this last part ok? Or should I fill in a different number? | ||
| Don Camillo Username: willybilly Registered: N/A |
yes, sector zero is okay. If I were you I would first make a backup of the working CF card. To do this do the following steps: 1. Tools - disk tools - clone disk (as you did) 2. As "source" choose your physical media (working compact flash card). 3. As "destination" choose "C:\path\the_name_you_want_to_use.dd" You can choose the path when clicking on the paper symbol. 4. "Copy entire medium" and "start sector 0" 5. With OK you should get an image of your CF on your computer HD. 6. After this remove your working CF card and insert the card where you want to copy it to. You should have checked THIS card before if it is okay (Windows Explorer click on CF-symbol - right mouse button - properties - Extras - check for failures now!) If there is nothing important on it (all data will be lost!!!!!) you should also format it - (Windows Explorer - CF-symbol - right mouse button - FORMAT - long (intensive) version). If you get any error message while doing this your CF card is BAD! 7. Same steps as 1 -5 but now SOURCE: "C:\the_name_you_want_to_use.dd" and destination: your physical media (CF). Same settings. This has the advantage that you do no longer need your original working system for cloning - you can use the image several times. 8. Test this CF card on a machine where the other CF card is working (maybe the machine and not the CF has a failure). I think that the CF card is BAD (may work, but some sectors do no longer work - this maybe enough to cause a bluescreen!) - if I were you I would try to replace it by a new CF. CF cards with this size are no longer very expensive. If the hardware supports a bigger one copying on a bigger one (not too big, e.g. 1 GB) should be no problem. | ||
| JESUS ALVIDRES Username: jalvidres Registered: N/A |
Thanks for all your help! This has been a very interesting and rewarding experience for me learning about these cf cards! I did all the steps and they look good but I still think I have a problem. On step 6 I could not find the "(Windows Explorer click on CF-symbol - right mouse button - properties - Extras - check for failures now!)" so I went thru my computer and format the cf card (it was new right before all this testing but still wanted to format it to make sure we were ok on that side). After format it I did clone the backup we did to the physical media but the backup had 1000944 sectors and the final cloning had 996336. When clonning the backup to the cf card I received 4 different messages: 1.-"Please note that the integrity of the partion(s)/file system(s)on "generic-compact flash" may be severely damaged by this operation" hit ok and then: 2.-"No backup is made of the sectors you are about to overwrite because of the specified undo limit of 20 MB" hit ok and then: 3.-"Cannot write to Generic-Compact Flash. Access is denied" hit ok and then: 4.-"Continue anyway?" Clicked "yes" and got a clone with 996336 instead of 1000944. Any advise? | ||
| Don Camillo Username: willybilly Registered: N/A |
Hi, this sounds as if your target CF card would be a little bit smaller. This sometimes happens - the same with HD. Although they say they have the same capacity they do not have the same capacity EXACTLY. If possible try to use a bigger CF card. Messages: 1) that is okay as you overwrite all data on the new CF, 2) No problem 3) Can it be that you worked under Vista withouth Admin rights? If yes, run with Admin rights (context menu, - right mouse button - run as admin) 4) yes. 5) As the partition size is not correct this is no good image, but you should be able to test if if works - but do not rely on it. Replace the card by a bigger one. Forgot one thing: As many cards / HDs have an empty space (up to some MB) at the end it may be that the partition is complete. But at so many sectors (4608 x 512 Bytes) = 2,4 MB on such a small card I would not rely on it. | ||
| JESUS ALVIDRES Username: jalvidres Registered: N/A |
The original card is 512 MB and I bought 2 new cards of the same size to be ok. The first time I cloned the card was modified by this clonning from 512 MB to about 350MB (I don't remember exactly) and now that I tried the clonning again the size was still 350MB with a partition of 512MB. How can I reset the card to its original size to try the clonning again and hopefully clone all the sectors? | ||
| JESUS ALVIDRES Username: jalvidres Registered: N/A |
When I check the properties of the CF card it says: 104 MB free of 350MB, this means that the clonning wants to clone the taken and empty space at once. Do you think that taken the card to its original partition the clonning will be succesful? | ||
| Don Camillo Username: willybilly Registered: N/A |
Hi, I am not sure if my answer will be right now, but let's try it: Question: Do you have 350 MB files on the CF OR is the C: PARTITION on the CF only 350 MB big? This makes a big difference! If the C: partion is only 350 MB BIG and you have 162 MB FREE space shown OUTSIDE the partiton, you can solve your problem very simple: At the clone window you will find a position: Number of sectors to clone - enter a slower value there e.g. 996335 (see above). To do this uncheck the checkbox "copy whole disk". This only makes a sence if THE PARTITON C: is smaller than the WHOLE CF card! As you said that 104 MB of 350 MB are free this could be the case. If the partiton C: is 512 MB BIG you have a small problem. As reported harddrives often have small differences in REAL size although both producers say: This is a 1 TB HD (or other value). There are tools to make partitions bigger or smaller - but: PLEASE do not test this on your working card. But first let's see if it works the first way. | ||
| JESUS ALVIDRES Username: jalvidres Registered: N/A |
They are 512 MB CF cards. After I tried to clone the working card (I did not clone physical drive at begining)the new card went from 512 MB to 350MB (246 MB used space and 104 of free space)with a NTFS file system. So I know that the card is a 512 MB even though it does not show 512 MB capacity anymore because it cloned the partition structure from the source card the first time.. | ||
| JESUS ALVIDRES Username: jalvidres Registered: N/A |
Would not be easier if we just erase the current partition of 350MB and make just one partition of the whole 512 MB. Can you tell me how to do this? what utility to use and how it is done? | ||
| Don Camillo Username: willybilly Registered: N/A |
Hi, first make the copy with Winhex (if the partition only has 350 MB this should make no problems - use the option sectors to clone 996335 or a little slower and you should get no error messages). Then make the partition bigger. just google for "partition resizer". I found one there: http://www.partition-tool.com/easeus-partition-manager/help/resizing-and-moving-partition.htm - but I did not test it. And: PLEASE test it with the copy NOT with the working original! There are of course other tools, e.g. diskpart under XP (run from "cmd") - but this is more complicated to explain. If you have a Vista system anywhere you can connect the CF with the Vista system. The hardware administration tool offers the possibility to enlarge the partition graphically. But the main question: Does the copy work now? | ||
| JESUS ALVIDRES Username: jalvidres Registered: N/A |
I tried this partition utility and found out that is just for hard drives, no removable media. If I have a backup of the good card (physical media), and I believe this backup is an identical copy of this good card, then what will be the steps towards getting that backup to a new cf card? I'm getting confused here and Don't understand why I'm not getting it. My cf card still does not work just like the good one! Any ideas of how I should approch it from the begining? | ||
| Don Camillo Username: willybilly Registered: N/A |
No. Sorry. As it is unusual that Windows runs from a CF card I suppose that the producer of the card used a special trick to create it. I don' t know in which machine this CF card runs (cash machine?). Could it be that the working original has "defect clusters" (programmers sometimes hide important information there). The other idea I still have is that USB-sticks and things like these have a built-in electronic which writes files NOT to the original place. The reason for this is that the sticks cannot be written too often - so the electronic writes files to another free place. The only idea I have is that the electronic of the CF "destroys" the physical image while writing it. It should be simple to find out if this is the reason: Hang the copied card on a computer and look if the partition and the files can be read. The last idea I have is that the new CF card does not support booting up (at least I heard about this - but never saw it). You could find out if this is the problem with the HP formatting tool http://www.pcwelt.de/downloads/tools_utilities/system-utilities/137203/hp_usb_disk_storage_format_tool/ and a DOS /Win98 boot diskette (Internet). After this the CF should at least boot up and show C:\ Sorry - this are my last ideas - except your machine where the CF is inside has a CD-ROM drive (you could try to install from there - but I suppose this will not work). |